Discussion:
LiveVoip is Bankrupt
(too old to reply)
Andres
2005-06-26 07:38:41 UTC
Permalink
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt


-------------------------------------------

There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early a.m. ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from terminating any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any action they will be in direct
violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you may contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S. Court Ordered Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.

LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action was taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers over billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what they had been paid for among other things.
A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be directed to our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the Courts in due course.

LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.

United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC

Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954
The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems. Please watch our main for site for complete details.


LiveVoip LLC
-----------------------------------
Yair Hakak
2005-06-26 07:43:34 UTC
Permalink
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
-------------------------------------------
There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early a.m. ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from terminating any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any action they will be in direct
violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you may contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S. Court Ordered Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.
LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action was taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers over billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what they had been paid for among other things.
A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be directed to our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the Courts in due course.
LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.
United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC
Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954
The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems. Please watch our main for site for complete details.
LiveVoip LLC
-----------------------------------
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Brian Capouch
2005-06-26 08:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.

Survival of the fittest . . .

B.
Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
2005-06-26 11:01:46 UTC
Permalink
I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...............?

Bashir

I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID???? .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Capouch" <***@palaver.net>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
<asterisk-***@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
Survival of the fittest . . .
B.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
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Rich Adamson
2005-06-26 13:01:11 UTC
Permalink
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com

------------------------
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...............?
Bashir
I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID???? .
----- Original Message -----
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
Survival of the fittest . . .
B.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
_______________________________________________
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---------------End of Original Message-----------------
Mark Musone
2005-06-26 13:50:27 UTC
Permalink
funny thing is just like their previous attitude with them blaming all
their customers, now they are blaming their bankruptcy on their
suppliers, clecs, and credit card fraud...

i hope one day they wake up and look in the mirror and see who the
real problem is...


p.s. i _love_ teliax. been using them for about 3 months now, after
canceling my broadvoice account for over a year and a half..i'll never
go back..


-Mark
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
------------------------
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...............?
Bashir
I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID???? .
----- Original Message -----
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
Survival of the fittest . . .
B.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
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http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
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Darren Wiebe
2005-06-26 14:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, I chuckled a little bit when I read the notice. It has absolutely
nothing to do with any stupid things they might have done, customers
they chased away etc. At least they only had $30.00 of mine. :-)

Darren
Post by Mark Musone
funny thing is just like their previous attitude with them blaming all
their customers, now they are blaming their bankruptcy on their
suppliers, clecs, and credit card fraud...
i hope one day they wake up and look in the mirror and see who the
real problem is...
p.s. i _love_ teliax. been using them for about 3 months now, after
canceling my broadvoice account for over a year and a half..i'll never
go back..
-Mark
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
------------------------
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...............?
Bashir
I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID???? .
----- Original Message -----
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
Survival of the fittest . . .
B.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
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trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-26 20:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Anytime a small new organization asks for up front payment, I wonder
about a locally famous case.
Back in the days of beepers, a local company was selling beeper
service for about 30% less than anyone in exchange for a relatively
good portion of payment up front. Can't remember if it was
3 months or 1 year. May have been both.
They collected up the payments and paid the money out in huge salaries.
Then they went bankrupt. It is apparently difficult for bankruptcy
courts to recover salary payments.
It is apparently a well known scam executed in a number of different
ways.
I recall a case against someone in New York City where a lady was doing
that with travel, selling cruises below her cost, etc. Presales upto 6
months ahead went to pay for tickets today. She paid herself $100k for
her services. They indicted her on fraud becuase it is illegal to sell
stuff below cost, knowing that you cant possibly make good on what you
sell.

Perhaps the same could be true of livevoip for anyone that lost any big
amount of money for prepayment on services they couldnt render. And
certainly for payments where the 'writing was on the wall', ie they knew
they were going to file bankrupcy yet accepted payments for months they
knew they wouldnt be in business.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
snacktime
2005-06-26 20:35:38 UTC
Permalink
For those that paid by credit card, you can call your bank and get any
amount they owe you refunded. You are not a creditor as far as the
bankruptcy is concerned, the acquring bank is.

Chris
Andres
2005-06-26 21:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by snacktime
For those that paid by credit card, you can call your bank and get any
amount they owe you refunded. You are not a creditor as far as the
bankruptcy is concerned, the acquring bank is.
Chris
_______________________________________________
Hi Chris,

I am curious to know how this would work in this case. Lets assume
someone purchased $100 worth of LiveVoip service using his Bank of
America Visa card (and did not get a chance to use the service). So now
LiveVoip is bankrupt and lets assume the owners fled with the money they
made so the bank accounts are cleaned out. If the person now calls Bank
of America to dispute the charge, then who loses the $100 in this case?
Visa, Bank of America, or the consumer?
--
Andres
Adam Megacz
2005-06-26 17:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.

Also, for some reason you can't call American Express customer support
(800 number) through them -- the call simply doesn't connect. I've
also had that problem with one other 800 number.

- a
John Goerzen
2005-06-27 12:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Megacz
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
Andrew Latham
2005-06-27 13:26:04 UTC
Permalink
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
--
<sig>
Andrew Latham - AKA: LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
WWW: http://lathama.com
Email: ***@lathama.com - ***@yahoo.com - ***@gmail.com
If any of the above are down we have bigger problems than my email!
</sig>
Dan Perik
2005-06-27 13:44:45 UTC
Permalink
I just looked at their price page. Each package says setup is "Free".
Now, I do notice that the "Price" for the pay as you go doesn't have
"/mth." on it as the others do. So maybe there is a difference. I
agree with you that it is not extremely clear and they could do a whole
lot better job explaining it.

- Dan
Post by Andrew Latham
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
Andrew Latham
2005-06-27 14:12:59 UTC
Permalink
maybe its a minimum amount? Haven't signed up so I don't know.
Post by Dan Perik
I just looked at their price page. Each package says setup is "Free".
Now, I do notice that the "Price" for the pay as you go doesn't have
"/mth." on it as the others do. So maybe there is a difference. I
agree with you that it is not extremely clear and they could do a whole
lot better job explaining it.
- Dan
Post by Andrew Latham
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
--
<sig>
Andrew Latham - AKA: LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
WWW: http://lathama.com
Email: ***@lathama.com - ***@yahoo.com - ***@gmail.com
If any of the above are down we have bigger problems than my email!
</sig>
a***@txpe.net
2005-06-27 14:49:12 UTC
Permalink
For the pay as you go plan, there is no set up fee. The $10 they have
listed is the minimum increment you buy minutes with. When you first sign
up, you pay $10 and get $10 worth of minutes. Then you can manually pay
more to add to your account balance or use there auto replenish setup. The
only fees I've run across so far are for LNP's.
Post by Andrew Latham
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
Andrew Latham - AKA: LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-27 14:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Goerzen
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
http://www.nufone.net. I've been using them for the past 18 months with zero
technical hassle. Jerjer and Shido6 hang out on IRC. Nufone is not a "hand
holding" VOIP provider. You are expected to have some clue. This has turned
away a number of people but as I said, they Just Work.

Rates are $0.02/min pretty much everywhere in North America with reasonable
rates elsewhere as well. No, they're not the cheapest but then again we can
all see what happens when you go for pure cost alone (LiveVoip).

-A.
John Goerzen
2005-06-27 16:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
http://www.nufone.net. I've been using them for the past 18 months with zero
technical hassle. Jerjer and Shido6 hang out on IRC. Nufone is not a "hand
holding" VOIP provider. You are expected to have some clue. This has turned
away a number of people but as I said, they Just Work.
So I've heard three recommendations for people coming from LiveVOIP:
nufone, teliax, and voxee. Nufone and teliax both are at $0.02/min and
voxee is at $0.011/min. No monthly fee plans are available from both.

I recall hearing of troubles with Nufone support awhile back. Have
those been resolved?

For someone that places outbound calls only, in a fairly low volume, is
there a recommendation for which one would be best for me?

I have had continual audio trouble with LiveVOIP, though other services
(FWD) work fine, so I'd want something that has good audio quality.
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
rates elsewhere as well. No, they're not the cheapest but then again we can
all see what happens when you go for pure cost alone (LiveVoip).
Well, all three are pretty darn cheap.

-- John
Rich Adamson
2005-06-28 03:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
http://www.nufone.net. I've been using them for the past 18 months with zero
technical hassle. Jerjer and Shido6 hang out on IRC. Nufone is not a "hand
holding" VOIP provider. You are expected to have some clue. This has turned
away a number of people but as I said, they Just Work.
nufone, teliax, and voxee. Nufone and teliax both are at $0.02/min and
voxee is at $0.011/min. No monthly fee plans are available from both.
I recall hearing of troubles with Nufone support awhile back. Have
those been resolved?
For someone that places outbound calls only, in a fairly low volume, is
there a recommendation for which one would be best for me?
It's probably a $2 decision. Just pick one or two and try them.

There are a fair number of people on this list (including myself) that
stay current with multiple itsp's. Every itsp is going to have a problem
now and then, so keeping a couple around isn't a bad approach even for
a home or soho system.
andrew matthews
2005-06-27 18:47:26 UTC
Permalink
http://connect.voicepulse.net

pay as you go, no signup fee.
Post by John Goerzen
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com <http://www.teliax.com>
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
andrew matthews
2005-06-27 19:51:38 UTC
Permalink
http://connect.voicepulse.com

sorry about that
Post by andrew matthews
http://connect.voicepulse.net
pay as you go, no signup fee.
Post by John Goerzen
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com <http://www.teliax.com>
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Orlando Guitián
2005-06-26 18:32:25 UTC
Permalink
If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution. we have manufactured
our own equipment and network from the ground up. The service has been
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
internation). If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 07:01:11 -0600
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
------------------------
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now
...............?
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
Bashir
I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID???? .
----- Original Message -----
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to
be
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at
their
Post by Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
Post by Brian Capouch
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
Survival of the fittest . . .
B.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
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---------------End of Original Message-----------------
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Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-26 19:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orlando Guitián
If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution. we have manufactured
our own equipment and network from the ground up. The service has been
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
internation). If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without bothering
to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account already has me
sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any money.

-A.
steve szmidt
2005-06-26 19:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Orlando Guitián
If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution. we have manufactured
our own equipment and network from the ground up. The service has been
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
internation). If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without
bothering to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account
already has me sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any
money.
It would seem that people just don't realize how it makes them look.
--
Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Rich Adamson
2005-06-27 00:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Orlando Guitián
If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution. we have manufactured
our own equipment and network from the ground up. The service has been
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
internation). If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without bothering
to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account already has me
sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any money.
I'll second that one big time!
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-26 20:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orlando Guitián
If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution. we have manufactured
our own equipment and network from the ground up. The service has been
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
internation). If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
A year of selling 'domestic and internation' and you have an msn.com
email address not one that is off the domian of the company you
represent? Interesting concept, does that really yield higher sales?
Could be a new marketing stragety I am unfamiliar with.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Orlando Guitián
2005-06-26 19:46:34 UTC
Permalink
here is the information. The website is in spanish (www.sebell.com),
therefore, i will send you the information in english on monday. To answer
your question, the service has been sold primarly to international banking
institutions and financial organizations via word of mouth. We are
currently translating the web site to english.

The service provides calling within the USA and Canada as well as
international access. Users (and supervisors) have realtime access to their
phone calls and billing.

The DIDs are provided for Miami (area codes 305 and 786) as well as Buenos
Aires (+54 11), Argentina.

The web site:
www.sebell.com
Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:20:08 -0400
Post by Orlando Guitián
If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution. we have
manufactured
Post by Orlando Guitián
our own equipment and network from the ground up. The service has been
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
internation). If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without
bothering
to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account already has
me
sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any money.
-A.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Alexander Lopez
2005-06-26 20:42:07 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:21 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Anytime a small new organization asks for up front payment,
I wonder
about a locally famous case.
Back in the days of beepers, a local company was selling beeper
service for about 30% less than anyone in exchange for a relatively
good portion of payment up front. Can't remember if it was
3 months or 1 year. May have been both.
They collected up the payments and paid the money out in
huge salaries.
Then they went bankrupt. It is apparently difficult for bankruptcy
courts to recover salary payments.
It is apparently a well known scam executed in a number of
different
ways.
I recall a case against someone in New York City where a lady
was doing that with travel, selling cruises below her cost,
etc. Presales upto 6 months ahead went to pay for tickets
today. She paid herself $100k for her services. They
indicted her on fraud becuase it is illegal to sell stuff
below cost, knowing that you cant possibly make good on what
you sell.
Perhaps the same could be true of livevoip for anyone that
lost any big amount of money for prepayment on services they
couldnt render. And certainly for payments where the
'writing was on the wall', ie they knew they were going to
file bankrupcy yet accepted payments for months they knew
they wouldnt be in business.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
If I recall recently LiveVoIP touted it 'merger' with a large
corporation (daddy BigBucks). I also remember that it was posted that it
was not in the best interest of LiveVoip to move forward on the merger.
In hind sight this is probably the result of the due-diligence done on
the larger corporation's side. Citing non-disclosure and other standard
agreements entered during transactions such as these it does not
surprise me that we (the customers) were not told about the writing on
the wall..



Alex
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-26 23:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Lopez
If I recall recently LiveVoIP touted it 'merger' with a large
corporation (daddy BigBucks). I also remember that it was posted that it
was not in the best interest of LiveVoip to move forward on the merger.
In hind sight this is probably the result of the due-diligence done on
the larger corporation's side. Citing non-disclosure and other standard
agreements entered during transactions such as these it does not
surprise me that we (the customers) were not told about the writing on
the wall..
My writing on the wall reference was not towards customers, instead it
was towards livevoip (or any other company) when they accepted money for
service they knew they could not provide.

In america at least (most other countries most likely have laws against
this as well) it is illegal to accept money for services you know you
cannot provide. It is also illegal (falls under fraud) for companies to
sell services below cost knowing they will drive themselves into the
ground and file bankrupcy.

While some may be able to get credit card refunds (depending on a
variety of factors, like how long ago they were charged, any court
orders in place right now, etc - most banks wont give you a refund if
they know they wont get any money from the merchant, unless you can
prove fraud to some degree) there are more than likely more customers
that will not. The only way to go after anything would be to go after
the people involved (a corporation does not shield oneself against
illegal actions - if that were the case CEOs across the country wouldnt
be in jail, have been in jail, facing jail, or trying to appeal their
jail sentences).
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
snacktime
2005-06-27 00:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
While some may be able to get credit card refunds (depending on a
variety of factors, like how long ago they were charged, any court
orders in place right now, etc - most banks wont give you a refund if
they know they wont get any money from the merchant, unless you can
prove fraud to some degree) there are more than likely more customers
that will not.
Doesn't work that way. Issuing banks are guaranteed payment by
acquiring banks. It's the acquiring bank that has to eat the loss,
not the issuing bank. Issuing banks eat losses when a cardholder
defaults, but never when a merchant defaults.

And in cases where the service is delivered over an extended period of
time, the clock for when you can chargeback doesnt' start ticking
until that time period is up. That's why acquirers don't like prepaid
plans or extended length subscriptions. Someone like livevoip can
charge a bunch of people and the acquiring bank can be eating losses
over a year out.

Chris
Marie
2005-06-27 01:44:29 UTC
Permalink
It depends on how the actual purchase was worded whether or not you
should be able to get a chargeback. I didn't buy from them, so I don't
know.

With some clever legal wording, it is possible to sell something that
the end user considers "prepay/future use" (like calling card
minutes), but as far as the credit card company etc. are concerned it
was a final sale over and done with like a normal purchase.

This is not to say that the issuing bank is going to give one and they
will just as likely process a chargeback as normal (and later reverse
it as long as someone is still at the other end shooting back the
boilerplate rebuttal). I'd suggest people wait as long as they can
before filing a chargeback -- merchants only get so many days (10 on
my account) to respond before it's automatically settled in the
customer's favor. If you wait as long as you can, there's a better
chance someone won't be sitting there replying.

I used to work for a shady company that sold calling cards
online/phone by credit card. It was a big thing to make sure that the
sales material/call-scripts were worded to make sure that once the
customer took posession of the pin code the transaction was
"completed" in terms of the credit card company. They often "lost
accounts" or "discontinued programs" that customers still had minutes
in, and they were able to escape from chargebacks by sending the fine
print to their bank as their rebuttal to the customer's complaint.

I didn't stay long after finding this out, the pay wasn't worth having
a company like that on my CV.

If you read up on the rumors around Dr. Phil, supposedly it's quite
common (and in some isolated areas still legal) to do a similar thing
with health clubs. Sell one year membership contracts, factor the
contract to someone else, close. The customer is still responsible for
completing their payments to the factor. The customer can't chargeback
payments they already made via credit card because the way the
contract is worded it doesn't matter if the health club is still open
or not.

With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
Rich Adamson
2005-06-27 02:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marie
With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
Since that was an LLC operation and unless management pierced the corp
vail, the LLC has far more liabilities then it does assets so the LLC
is bankrupt. There is a legal pecking order as to who receives payments
after the assets are disposed. As user's of the service, we're on the
bottom of that list and will probably take at least a year or two
to reach closure.
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-27 03:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Adamson
Post by Marie
With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
Since that was an LLC operation and unless management pierced the corp
vail, the LLC has far more liabilities then it does assets so the LLC
is bankrupt. There is a legal pecking order as to who receives payments
after the assets are disposed. As user's of the service, we're on the
bottom of that list and will probably take at least a year or two
to reach closure.
LLC/Corporations do not protect officers of the company if the officers,
through official job duties, commit crimes. Taking money for services
you know you cant provide. Its prima facia if you sell below cost and
cant prove that you thought you have VC money or something else to
offset that 'promotional' period and then file bankrupcy. This is to
prevent someone from basically doing a ponzi scheme, where people late
in the game are paying for the people today, eventually the bubble
bursts and the late comers are left holding the bag. While this is
specific to US law, livevoip in this case was a US based company so that
applies. This may not apply to other companies doing basically the same
thing in other jurisdictions. And I dont know that they were doing
this, but I am certain they didnt decide to file bankrupcy and file the
same day, there had to be a period when they started to file but kept
accepting new customers knowing those customers werent going to get what
they paid for.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Matt Riddell
2005-06-26 21:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.

Offers?
--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
_______________________________________________

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
Peter Corlett
2005-06-26 21:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Matt Riddell <***@sineapps.com> wrote:
[...]
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host. So, unless
anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site, it
will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
How much bandwidth does it consume?
--
You fall out of your mother's womb, you crawl across open country under fire,
and drop into your grave.
- Quentin Crisp
Listacc
2005-06-26 22:31:21 UTC
Permalink
are you guys still looking for space? I can donate you some space tell
me how much you need? I own a communications company based in Tulsa, OK.
OCOSA Communications, LLC http://www.ocosa.com We don't generally do
we just started and mySQL as well give me a quote and I 'll will get you
hooked up if your interested!

Otis Surratt Jr.
Post by Peter Corlett
[...]
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host. So, unless
anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site, it
will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
How much bandwidth does it consume?
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-26 23:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Riddell
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
sourceforge "asterisk daily news documentation project"? They have some
bandwidth, file space, php and mysql are reported to work...

Dunno if this will fit your goals though.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Sahil Gupta
2005-06-26 23:17:20 UTC
Permalink
E-mail me off-list, we'll help out :-)

Regards,


Sahil Gupta
VoiceValley
Post by trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Post by Matt Riddell
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
sourceforge "asterisk daily news documentation project"? They have some
bandwidth, file space, php and mysql are reported to work...
Dunno if this will fit your goals though.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Danny Froberg
2005-06-27 14:38:50 UTC
Permalink
I'd be happy to host you in our Montreal Datacenter at no cost.
Contact me off-list if you're interested.

/Danny
Post by Matt Riddell
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
andrew matthews
2005-06-27 18:11:17 UTC
Permalink
I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own servers. I'd
love to help.
Post by Matt Riddell
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
--
Cheers,
Matt Riddell
_______________________________________________
http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Steven Kalcevich
2005-06-27 19:28:06 UTC
Permalink
I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903&rd=1
Post by andrew matthews
I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own
servers. I'd love to help.
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
--
Cheers,
Matt Riddell
____________________________
Dan Perik
2005-06-27 20:44:01 UTC
Permalink
I'm not sure which is funnier... that someone would offer something like
that for sale on ebay, or that someone would pay $10.56 + $4.50 shipping
to buy it.

rofl
- Dan
Post by Steven Kalcevich
I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903&rd=1
Steve Totaro
2005-06-28 01:08:24 UTC
Permalink
how much traffic?
\

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Kalcevich" <***@ciscokid.net>
To: "andrew matthews" <***@gmail.com>; "Asterisk Users Mailing List -
Non-Commercial Discussion" <asterisk-***@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Steven Kalcevich
I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903&rd=1
Post by Steven Kalcevich
Post by andrew matthews
I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own
servers. I'd love to help.
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
--
Cheers,
Matt Riddell
____________________________
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Joshua Colp
2005-06-26 21:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Matt - catch me on IRC (it's file).

- Joshua Colp.

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matt Riddell
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:30 PM
To: ***@telesip.net; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site, it
will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.

Offers?

--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
_______________________________________________

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Michael Di Martino
2005-06-27 02:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Hey pooch are u ever going to put up the howto's from the Atlanta
asterisk conference? You only said you would. Don't be like LiveVOIP and
follow thru on your word.

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Capouch
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:09 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.

Survival of the fittest . . .

B.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
2005-06-27 06:45:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,

I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and not
here.

Marcel van Kaam

Fonetica Teleservices
Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-27 11:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion. There's
no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a
few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all not geographically
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is
silly.

So I ask you -- what should people do?

-A.
Francesco Peeters
2005-06-27 11:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.
There's
no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a
few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all not
geographically
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is
silly.
So I ask you -- what should people do?
-A.
*Shrugs* Seen it, been there... This happens on all lists at some point
in time... Several lists I am on have already created an OT or TALK list
besides the main list...

Whenever that happens, I just subscribe to the 2nd list and customize my
procmail recipes to toss it in the same folder... :-/

And then live goes on...
--
Francesco Peeters
----
GPG Key = AA69 E7C6 1D8A F148 160C D5C4 9943 6E38 D5E3 7704
If your program doesn't recognize my signature, please visit
http://www.CAcert.org/index.php?id=3 to retrieve the Root CA certificate.
Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-27 14:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francesco Peeters
*Shrugs* Seen it, been there... This happens on all lists at some point
in time... Several lists I am on have already created an OT or TALK list
besides the main list...
Whenever that happens, I just subscribe to the 2nd list and customize my
procmail recipes to toss it in the same folder... :-/
That's kind of a neat idea. :-)

-A.
Matt Riddell
2005-06-27 15:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion. There's
no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a
few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all not geographically
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is
silly.
So I ask you -- what should people do?
Heh, go easy on the guy, he probably hasn't got threads and has to read
every topic just to get to the topics he likes.

:D

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626
--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
_______________________________________________

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-27 18:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion. There's
no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a
few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all not geographically
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is
silly.
So I ask you -- what should people do?
-A.
I think he was upset that people were talking about the Daily Asterisk
News website, and people were offering to donate webspace to keep it up
and stuff and all of that happened under the "LiveVoip is Bankrupt"
subject line.

But then I could be wrong, maybe he did not actually read anything but
the subject itself and decided to attack people to force this very
conversation, about him doing exactly what he is claiming others are
doing.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Rusty Shackleford
2005-06-27 14:27:59 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:46 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Hi All,
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down,
bankrupt etc.... So please stop nagging about it and move on
to some topics that really matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a
restaurant, eat, drink and nag and wine about it as much as
you want. But do it there and not here.
Thank you, Mr. Self-Appointed Netcop. Now please study the features of
your mail client that allow you to avoid reading "offensive" topics.

Granted, this issue is only tangentially topical for the -users list,
but I believe the discussion is largely worthwhile, if only for the
lessons this episode brings to us.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 06/27/2005
Lists
2005-06-27 17:48:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down,
bankrupt etc.... So please stop nagging about it and move on
to some topics that really matter.
No, this is a good lesson to listen to and possibly learn some things from. As
Andrew said it's not even flaming.
--
List Manager
Network Voice Comunications, Inc.
netwvcom.com
Rick Baranowski
2005-06-27 15:17:53 UTC
Permalink
And fee's for the Tollfree numbers.

We us them also and have had a good experience.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of
***@txpe.net
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:49 AM
To: Andrew Latham; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: teliax [Was: LiveVoip is Bankrupt]

For the pay as you go plan, there is no set up fee. The $10 they have
listed is the minimum increment you buy minutes with. When you first sign
up, you pay $10 and get $10 worth of minutes. Then you can manually pay
more to add to your account balance or use there auto replenish setup. The
only fees I've run across so far are for LNP's.
Post by Andrew Latham
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
Andrew Latham - AKA: LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
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a***@txpe.net
2005-06-27 15:46:38 UTC
Permalink
I was charge $25 for a toll free port. I don't know what the fee is for a
local port, though I have one in progress. I haven't been able to find
these fees listed on the website (yet). Maybe someone from Teliax can fill
in what extra fees may be charged?

Doug
Post by Rick Baranowski
And fee's for the Tollfree numbers.
We us them also and have had a good experience.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:49 AM
To: Andrew Latham; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: teliax [Was: LiveVoip is Bankrupt]
For the pay as you go plan, there is no set up fee. The $10 they have
listed is the minimum increment you buy minutes with. When you first sign
up, you pay $10 and get $10 worth of minutes. Then you can manually pay
more to add to your account balance or use there auto replenish setup. The
only fees I've run across so far are for LNP's.
Post by Andrew Latham
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open with
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory "we're
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip used
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax charges a
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
Andrew Latham - AKA: LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
a***@txpe.net
2005-06-27 16:52:17 UTC
Permalink
OK, I found the list of LNP fees on Teliax's website. They are located on
the FAQ page (good place for it). They charge $25 "per batch". I guess
you could port several numbers at one time and lower the cost per number
port charge.
Post by a***@txpe.net
I was charge $25 for a toll free port. I don't know what the fee is for a
local port, though I have one in progress. I haven't been able to find
these fees listed on the website (yet). Maybe someone from Teliax can
fill in what extra fees may be charged?
Doug
Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 15:26:40 UTC
Permalink
You just got a tax write off because your money is certainly locked up
in chapter 11.

W


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Bashir
Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:02 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now
...............?

Bashir

I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID???? .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Capouch" <***@palaver.net>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
<asterisk-***@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to
be
Post by Brian Capouch
Post by Yair Hakak
around for a long time.
I agree totally. After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at
their
Post by Brian Capouch
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
Survival of the fittest . . .
B.
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Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 15:25:05 UTC
Permalink
As predicted....

In keeping with LiveVoip company policy, even this letter seems
antagonistic towards customers and creditors. You are under a STAY!!
Don't talk to us!

Wow, I guess the merger with the trailer park DSL company just did not
help at all. And after Joop spent so much time shining me the good
lies...

Well, it could not have happened to a nicer company.

W


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Andres
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:39 AM
To: asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
Subject: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt


-------------------------------------------

There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early
a.m. ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from
terminating any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any
action they will be in direct
violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you
may contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S.
Court Ordered Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.

LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action
was taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers
over billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what
they had been paid for among other things.
A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be
directed to our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the
Courts in due course.

LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.

United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC

Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954
The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main
website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems.
Please watch our main for site for complete details.


LiveVoip LLC
-----------------------------------


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Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 15:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Having read the TOS from LiveVoip many times, I can almost assure you it
was written by the LiveVoip staff and not a lawyer. Due to that, I
cannot imagine them slithering out of this entirely.

W


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Marie
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:44 PM
To: snacktime; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

It depends on how the actual purchase was worded whether or not you
should be able to get a chargeback. I didn't buy from them, so I don't
know.

With some clever legal wording, it is possible to sell something that
the end user considers "prepay/future use" (like calling card
minutes), but as far as the credit card company etc. are concerned it
was a final sale over and done with like a normal purchase.

This is not to say that the issuing bank is going to give one and they
will just as likely process a chargeback as normal (and later reverse
it as long as someone is still at the other end shooting back the
boilerplate rebuttal). I'd suggest people wait as long as they can
before filing a chargeback -- merchants only get so many days (10 on
my account) to respond before it's automatically settled in the
customer's favor. If you wait as long as you can, there's a better
chance someone won't be sitting there replying.

I used to work for a shady company that sold calling cards
online/phone by credit card. It was a big thing to make sure that the
sales material/call-scripts were worded to make sure that once the
customer took posession of the pin code the transaction was
"completed" in terms of the credit card company. They often "lost
accounts" or "discontinued programs" that customers still had minutes
in, and they were able to escape from chargebacks by sending the fine
print to their bank as their rebuttal to the customer's complaint.

I didn't stay long after finding this out, the pay wasn't worth having
a company like that on my CV.

If you read up on the rumors around Dr. Phil, supposedly it's quite
common (and in some isolated areas still legal) to do a similar thing
with health clubs. Sell one year membership contracts, factor the
contract to someone else, close. The customer is still responsible for
completing their payments to the factor. The customer can't chargeback
payments they already made via credit card because the way the
contract is worded it doesn't matter if the health club is still open
or not.

With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
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Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 15:48:56 UTC
Permalink
Well, I guess stating at the bottom of the list is a bad idea sometimes.


Sorry, Marcel, I just find this a relevant topic since so much money and
time have been wasted trying to use this company's service.

Will drop it shortly though.

Cheers,
W


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Marcel van
Kaam, Fonetica
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:46 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Hi All,

I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not
here.

Marcel van Kaam

Fonetica Teleservices


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Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 15:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Actually, if you look at my posts from a month or two ago, you can see
that they not only had to have known, they were publicly stating that
they were expanding. Joop personally told me that they were going to
offer Vonage type of service and that they were opening service in the
UK. He actually was exceedingly verbose and never gave hint to the fact
that they were in trouble (not that he would). This should be no
surprise to anyone.

I just hope they burn for it...

W


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Rich Adamson
Post by Marie
With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that
LiveVOIP
Post by Rich Adamson
Post by Marie
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms
of
Post by Rich Adamson
Post by Marie
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
Since that was an LLC operation and unless management pierced the corp
vail, the LLC has far more liabilities then it does assets so the LLC
is bankrupt. There is a legal pecking order as to who receives
payments
Post by Rich Adamson
after the assets are disposed. As user's of the service, we're on the
bottom of that list and will probably take at least a year or two
to reach closure.
LLC/Corporations do not protect officers of the company if the officers,
through official job duties, commit crimes. Taking money for services
you know you cant provide. Its prima facia if you sell below cost and
cant prove that you thought you have VC money or something else to
offset that 'promotional' period and then file bankrupcy. This is to
prevent someone from basically doing a ponzi scheme, where people late
in the game are paying for the people today, eventually the bubble
bursts and the late comers are left holding the bag. While this is
specific to US law, livevoip in this case was a US based company so that
applies. This may not apply to other companies doing basically the same
thing in other jurisdictions. And I dont know that they were doing
this, but I am certain they didnt decide to file bankrupcy and file the
same day, there had to be a period when they started to file but kept
accepting new customers knowing those customers werent going to get what
they paid for.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 16:35:58 UTC
Permalink
This is probably a good time to point out that there is a good litmus
test for all Voip providers. PRIOR to purchasing anything, send them an
email and request the sales information. Ask about their servers or
their policies or anything you can think of. How they respond will tell
you a lot. If it takes forever, you can tell that they are either
really busy, really indifferent, or something in between.

In the case of Teliax, I can say that my test account with them went
very well before. I just did not like the packaging deal for their
setup. As to customer service, I understand that they are a smallish
group focusing on the best quality they can. That may have changed but
it is what I remember about them.

Cheers,
W



---Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of
***@txpe.net
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:47 AM
To: ***@qwest.net; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: teliax [Was: LiveVoip is Bankrupt]

I was charge $25 for a toll free port. I don't know what the fee is for
a
local port, though I have one in progress. I haven't been able to find
these fees listed on the website (yet). Maybe someone from Teliax can
fill
in what extra fees may be charged?

Doug
Post by Rick Baranowski
And fee's for the Tollfree numbers.
We us them also and have had a good experience.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:49 AM
To: Andrew Latham; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion
Post by Rick Baranowski
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: teliax [Was: LiveVoip is Bankrupt]
For the pay as you go plan, there is no set up fee. The $10 they have
listed is the minimum increment you buy minutes with. When you first
sign
Post by Rick Baranowski
up, you pay $10 and get $10 worth of minutes. Then you can manually
pay
Post by Rick Baranowski
more to add to your account balance or use there auto replenish setup.
The
Post by Rick Baranowski
only fees I've run across so far are for LNP's.
Post by Andrew Latham
I think the $10 is setup, as you will notice all the others mention
the monthly next to the rate.
I was confused also. (Hint Teliax)
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
Post by Rich Adamson
I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
I like them too, except for support. I have THREE tickets open
with
Post by Rick Baranowski
Post by Andrew Latham
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
them that are ten days old and haven't received even a cursory
"we're
Post by Rick Baranowski
Post by Andrew Latham
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Adam Megacz
looking into it" response. It's absurd.
I'm looking for someone that sells minutes in bulk like LiveVoip
used
Post by Rick Baranowski
Post by Andrew Latham
Post by John Goerzen
to. No monthly fee, just pay-as-you-go. It looks like Teliax
charges a
Post by Rick Baranowski
Post by Andrew Latham
Post by John Goerzen
minimum of $10/mo, even if I use no minutes that month.
Andrew Latham - AKA: LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
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Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 16:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Well, as someone who doesn't use threads... I think I can say it is not
the end of the world. I find scanning my Asterisk mail folder to be
pretty easy....

W

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Riddell
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:47 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt
etc....
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant,
eat,
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there
and
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.
There's
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll die
within a
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all not
geographically
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new
list is
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
silly.
So I ask you -- what should people do?
Heh, go easy on the guy, he probably hasn't got threads and has to read
every topic just to get to the topics he likes.

:D

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626
--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
_______________________________________________

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Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
2005-06-27 16:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Hi Wiley,

I understand that, and it was not my intentions on being to negative.
It is just that this is the users list and for the Biz we have the biz list.
Here on the users list we should discuss topics about using asterisk and on
the biz list we should discuss offers and bankruptcies.

I understand it is important to discuss those things but and that people are
warn about the bad services etc. but that is in my opinion business.

Marcel van Kaam

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Wiley Siler
Sent: maandag 27 juni 2005 17:49
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Well, I guess stating at the bottom of the list is a bad idea sometimes.


Sorry, Marcel, I just find this a relevant topic since so much money and
time have been wasted trying to use this company's service.

Will drop it shortly though.

Cheers,
W


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Marcel van
Kaam, Fonetica
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:46 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Hi All,

I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc....
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not
here.

Marcel van Kaam

Fonetica Teleservices


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Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 17:27:27 UTC
Permalink
For outbound only, I have traditionally recommended VoipJet. They just
recently has a spat of issues that seem to have resolved though. I am
still using them via their east coast server and it seems to work quite
well again. Cost is around 1.3 cents minute I believe. Use IAX and
g711 for best quality to VoipJet.

Thanks,
Wiley




-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of John
Goerzen
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:29 AM
To: asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: teliax [Was: LiveVoip is Bankrupt]
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
http://www.nufone.net. I've been using them for the past 18 months
with zero
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
technical hassle. Jerjer and Shido6 hang out on IRC. Nufone is not a
"hand
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
holding" VOIP provider. You are expected to have some clue. This has
turned
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
away a number of people but as I said, they Just Work.
So I've heard three recommendations for people coming from LiveVOIP:
nufone, teliax, and voxee. Nufone and teliax both are at $0.02/min and
voxee is at $0.011/min. No monthly fee plans are available from both.

I recall hearing of troubles with Nufone support awhile back. Have
those been resolved?

For someone that places outbound calls only, in a fairly low volume, is
there a recommendation for which one would be best for me?

I have had continual audio trouble with LiveVOIP, though other services
(FWD) work fine, so I'd want something that has good audio quality.
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
rates elsewhere as well. No, they're not the cheapest but then again
we can
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
all see what happens when you go for pure cost alone (LiveVoip).
Well, all three are pretty darn cheap.

-- John

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r00t
2005-06-28 03:12:39 UTC
Permalink
I'll second voipjet for outbound only. While many reported problems to
the list I silenty had no troubles at all. US and international
calling was fine. One day my account stopped working entirely, I
contacted support and recieved a reply in 20 minutes. I had triggered
a security switch of some sort,disabling my account. The issue was
resolved. Thats the best customer service I have recieved from any
operation thus far.

Chad Osmond
2005-06-27 18:00:41 UTC
Permalink
<For someone that places outbound calls only, in a fairly low volume, is
there a recommendation for which one would be <best for me?

<I have had continual audio trouble with LiveVOIP, though other services
<(FWD) work fine, so I'd want something that has good audio quality.

I will toss in my $0.02 and say that I have had good luck with Voxee,
simple setup, good quality, not so great instructions (there weren't
any) but a snappy response from the time I paid in paypal until the time
it appeared on my account (2 minutes)

Their rates seem good as well, I'm happy with them.
There was an issue with their servers ignoring the CID information, but
that has been resolved.
David Brodbeck
2005-06-27 18:24:01 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Heh, go easy on the guy, he probably hasn't got threads and
has to read
every topic just to get to the topics he likes.
:D
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626
Right click on the message list heading, Customize Current View..., Group
By..., Conversation.
Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-27 19:10:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Brodbeck
Post by Matt Riddell
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626
Right click on the message list heading, Customize Current View..., Group
By..., Conversation.
I just ran over and did that on a system with OfficeXP ... good lord,
Microsoft even screwed up threading... How can anyone read that?

-A.
Michael Di Martino
2005-06-27 18:31:07 UTC
Permalink
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:43 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt
etc....
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that
really matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant,
eat, drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it
there and not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.
There's no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll
die within a few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all
not geographically close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting
up an entirely new list is silly.
So I ask you -- what should people do?
-A.
I think he was upset that people were talking about the Daily Asterisk
News website, and people were offering to donate webspace to keep it up
and stuff and all of that happened under the "LiveVoip is Bankrupt"
subject line.

But then I could be wrong, maybe he did not actually read anything but
the subject itself and decided to attack people to force this very
conversation, about him doing exactly what he is claiming others are
doing.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-27 20:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.
The bankrupt thread is mostly now about finiding hosting for Daily
Asterisk News, which I feel is helping asterisk people, and people
whining about this thread.

The whining seemed to be from people reading the subject line and not
even bothering to notice that the majority of the posts under this
subject were about an asterisk specific thing when I saw that. This
isnt slashdot we should actually read more than the subjects before
commenting.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-27 19:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Do you have some proof of this? I find the list rather helpful on the whole,
with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects inbetween.

-A.
Robert Webb
2005-06-27 21:15:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:27:22 -0400
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping
other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might
be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most
request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of
unanswered.
Do you have some proof of this? I find the list rather
helpful on the whole,
with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects
inbetween.
-A.
I think he is just frustrated because only two people have
replied to his question about his IAXy device not working
after having repeated his same question a dozen times in
new threads..

Robert
steve szmidt
2005-06-27 19:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does
so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand
operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!".
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but
enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with
difficulties for any newcomer.

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started
without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that
frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
--
Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Andrew Kohlsmith
2005-06-27 21:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve szmidt
One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started
without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that
frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the
last few years. Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought up
and dismissed each and every time.

Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end up
answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems to
want to read for themselves.

It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time I
think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list. That
was entertaining. :-)

-A.
steve szmidt
2005-06-27 23:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by steve szmidt
One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the
last few years. Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought
up and dismissed each and every time.
Yes, I remember.
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end
up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems
to want to read for themselves.
Exactly. Though I think we could have more success if we had a dumb'd down
version of the wiki with very few options. Maybe along the line Minimum-1,
A-Bit-More-2 and A-Little-Bit -More-3. The wiki could do with a MySQL web
type layout. I'm thinking of the many examples part. But I sure don't have
the time to do it. But I would be tempted.
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time
I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list.
That was entertaining. :-)
Hehe... we don't see that much fun every day. Which is probably why it was
entertaining.
--
Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
John Goerzen
2005-06-27 20:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Most requests for assistance with asterisk problems:

1) Are in a FAQ or Wiki trivially reachable by google

2) Have already been archived on this list, again trivially reachable by
Google

80% of questions on this list aren't the least bit interesting to me
because I already found the answer for myself on the wiki, docs, or
google some time ago.
Steve Totaro
2005-06-28 02:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Goerzen
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
1) Are in a FAQ or Wiki trivially reachable by google
2) Have already been archived on this list, again trivially reachable by
Google
80% of questions on this list aren't the least bit interesting to me
because I already found the answer for myself on the wiki, docs, or
google some time ago.
Many times for me, the list is useful in actually defining the question,
then I find the answer before anyone replies.
Florin Mandache
2005-06-27 19:04:41 UTC
Permalink
It is any way to use this card with Asterisk, and if yes, HOW to ?

Thanks.
Eric Wieling aka ManxPower
2005-06-27 19:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florin Mandache
It is any way to use this card with Asterisk, and if yes, HOW to ?
According to this: http://asterisk.org/index.php?menu=hardware no.
--
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
Francesco Peeters
2005-06-27 21:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Wieling aka ManxPower
Post by Florin Mandache
It is any way to use this card with Asterisk, and if yes, HOW to ?
According to this: http://asterisk.org/index.php?menu=hardware no.
According to that page this one is:
D/300JCT-1E1 E1 + 30 voice

Don't know whether it is similar/the same tho...
--
Francesco Peeters
----
GPG Key = AA69 E7C6 1D8A F148 160C D5C4 9943 6E38 D5E3 7704
If your program doesn't recognize my signature, please visit
http://www.CAcert.org/index.php?id=3 to retrieve the Root CA certificate.
Francesco Peeters
2005-06-27 20:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florin Mandache
It is any way to use this card with Asterisk, and if yes, HOW to ?
Thanks.
According to this
<http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=Asterisk%20hardware> there
is a Dialogic driver available from Digium... Best to ask them directly
whether these support you card as well...

As an aside, please start a NEW email when you have a NEW item/question...
Unlike what M$ makes you believe, replying to an existing email does NOT
start a new thread, even when you change the subject...

Your question is now somewhere in the middle of the LiveVOIP thread, and
people who have marked this thread for immediate delete will NEVER see
your question, nor any replies to it (My reply will be part of that thread
as well, BTW)

Have fun!
--
Francesco Peeters
----
GPG Key = AA69 E7C6 1D8A F148 160C D5C4 9943 6E38 D5E3 7704
If your program doesn't recognize my signature, please visit
http://www.CAcert.org/index.php?id=3 to retrieve the Root CA certificate.
Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 19:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Feel free to unsubscribe at your earliest convenience.

I for one disagree with you completely.

The only questions that occasionally go unanswered are those that were
just asked, are written twenty times on the Wiki, or are intrinsicly
stupid.
And even those questions are often answered with redirection to the
resource that documents them. People on this list are helpful and
genuinely interested in assisting their fellow users.

Feel free to hang at the Qmail list of that is what brings you joy.
That would have to be better than listening to you deride this list for
no reason other than you don't like today's topic. If this list needed
the likes of you or the other netcop, then you opinion might matter.
Fortunately, it does not.

Cheers,
Wiley







-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Michael Di
Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:31 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.


-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:43 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt
etc....
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that
really matter.
If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant,
eat, drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it
there and not here.
I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.
There's no flaming, there's no bashing. Sure it's offtopic but it'll
die within a few more days... Why snuff it? I am positive we're all
not geographically close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting
up an entirely new list is silly.
So I ask you -- what should people do?
-A.
I think he was upset that people were talking about the Daily Asterisk
News website, and people were offering to donate webspace to keep it up
and stuff and all of that happened under the "LiveVoip is Bankrupt"
subject line.

But then I could be wrong, maybe he did not actually read anything but
the subject itself and decided to attack people to force this very
conversation, about him doing exactly what he is claiming others are
doing.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
2005-06-27 23:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wiley Siler
Feel free to unsubscribe at your earliest convenience.
I for one disagree with you completely.
The only questions that occasionally go unanswered are those that were
just asked, are written twenty times on the Wiki, or are intrinsicly
stupid.
And even those questions are often answered with redirection to the
resource that documents them. People on this list are helpful and
genuinely interested in assisting their fellow users.
I agree with that last part and as proof I submit the bankrupt thread
which is actually several threads in one subject line. There are MANY
offers to help someone host the asterisk daily news (aparently the
bankrupcy affected this), which I feel is related to the asterisk
community, but maybe I am whacky that way. I also see a community
spirit with people offering advice to get money back and other related
things given the news. If we did not have this community spirit in
helping people we wouldnt have offered such help. And that is just
within 2 days in one thread (the very thread that spawned the 'people
dont help' comments).
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
Michael Di Martino
2005-06-27 20:12:57 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kohlsmith
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:27 PM
To: asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Do you have some proof of this? I find the list rather helpful on the
whole, with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects
inbetween.

-A.
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

####################################################################

This list has potential but it is not strong enough dealing w/ asterisk
system issues.
Michael Di Martino
2005-06-27 20:11:20 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:03 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.
The bankrupt thread is mostly now about finiding hosting for Daily
Asterisk News, which I feel is helping asterisk people, and people
whining about this thread.

The whining seemed to be from people reading the subject line and not
even bothering to notice that the majority of the posts under this
subject were about an asterisk specific thing when I saw that. This
isnt slashdot we should actually read more than the subjects before
commenting.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378

****************************************************8
Not really. This thread does not belong on this list. It is off topic
and a waste of time for admins dealing w/ real system issues. Like I
said sign up for the qmail list and you will see how a real user list
operates.
John Millican
2005-06-27 21:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Mr. DiMartino,
how about you go to the qmail list and stay there so they can listen to your
whining and not us. This is a VERY helpful list. Yes there is the
occasional question that goes unanswered, but this is rare. Stop trolling,
go away, and grow up. Sometimes is is as important to know what not to do,
as it is to know what to do.
John M
-----Original Message-----
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:03 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.
The bankrupt thread is mostly now about finiding hosting for Daily
Asterisk News, which I feel is helping asterisk people, and people
whining about this thread.
The whining seemed to be from people reading the subject line and not
even bothering to notice that the majority of the posts under this
subject were about an asterisk specific thing when I saw that. This
isnt slashdot we should actually read more than the subjects before
commenting.
jurczak
2005-06-27 20:32:10 UTC
Permalink
I am throwing my * away, I will be using this system from now.

Btw: I have laughed like this for long time

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Kalcevich
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:28 PM
To: andrew matthews; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903
&rd=1
Post by andrew matthews
I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own
servers. I'd love to help.
Post by Andres
So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
--
Cheers,
Matt Riddell
____________________________
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Michael Di Martino
2005-06-27 20:55:28 UTC
Permalink
I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem
is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the
were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of steve
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!".
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer.

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
--
Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-***@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Mike
2005-06-27 20:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Di Martino
The archives need to be fully indexed.
Can you say Google?

site:lists.digium.com query goes here
Post by Michael Di Martino
-----Original Message-----
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.
However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.
It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!".
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer.
The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.
One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
--
Steve Szmidt
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
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Florin Mandache
2005-06-27 21:03:31 UTC
Permalink
As is on that page :
D/300JCT-1E1 E1 + 30 voice so is compatible ??!??
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wieling
aka ManxPower
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Dialogic D/300pci-E1 card
Post by Florin Mandache
It is any way to use this card with Asterisk, and if yes, HOW to ?
According to this: http://asterisk.org/index.php?menu=hardware no.
--
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
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Eric Wieling aka ManxPower
2005-06-28 00:34:14 UTC
Permalink
I have no idea. But since it's NOT the same part number, I would
assume no. Perhaps a call to Digium would be in order?
Post by Florin Mandache
D/300JCT-1E1 E1 + 30 voice so is compatible ??!??
-----Original Message-----
aka ManxPower
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Dialogic D/300pci-E1 card
Post by Florin Mandache
It is any way to use this card with Asterisk, and if yes, HOW to ?
According to this: http://asterisk.org/index.php?menu=hardware no.
--
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
Florin Mandache
2005-06-27 22:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone know how to make this card to work with asterisk ? Any drivers
for it?
Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 21:44:31 UTC
Permalink
"Not really. This thread does not belong on this list. It is off topic
and a waste of time for admins dealing w/ real system issues. Like I
said sign up for the qmail list and you will see how a real user list
operates."



LMAO - OK, so those same admins dealing with "real" system issues are
spending lots of time perusing their userlist postings? Must be some
serious issues, eh?

Seriously. Save the criticism for your colleagues at Qmail. There is
no point in throwing out criticism to this list. It is what it is. We
will undoubtedly waste more time going back and forth over this argument
than is worth it. And the irony of that should really hit home.

I am glad that you like your other list and feel it serves your
purposes. This list serves the purposes of many despite the fact that
from time to time it may drop into a rabbit hole. It is an excellent
resource even if it is not organized in a manner that meets your
personal requirements.

It is what it is. Accept it and move on.

Cheers,
Wiley
Gary
2005-06-27 22:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve szmidt
Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad.
which is why the wiki is so important !

alternatively, i am surprised that no one yet has actually done a
series of posts which actually form the most common "newbie" questions
and called it an FAQ which would be a very apt description !

.
Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 22:41:32 UTC
Permalink
The archive is very searchable it just is a pain sometimes...

To search by relevance...
Go to google.com.
Enter: site:lists.digium.com <some search value>
You get the archive back with relevance as the main sorter.

I have also seen some places that back up the list and sort by date and
allow searching. (looking for these again)

So it may be labor intensive sometimes but there is certainly the
ability to search.

W





-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Michael Di
Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem
is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the
were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of steve
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!".
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer.

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
--
Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
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Darren Wiebe
2005-06-28 00:56:21 UTC
Permalink
If you don't like that method, go to
http://www.mail-archive.com/index.php?hunt=asterisk I used to use this
archive sometimes.

Darren Wiebe
Post by Wiley Siler
The archive is very searchable it just is a pain sometimes...
To search by relevance...
Go to google.com.
Enter: site:lists.digium.com <some search value>
You get the archive back with relevance as the main sorter.
I have also seen some places that back up the list and sort by date and
allow searching. (looking for these again)
So it may be labor intensive sometimes but there is certainly the
ability to search.
W
-----Original Message-----
Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem
is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the
were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.
-----Original Message-----
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.
However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.
It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!".
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer.
The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.
One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
Wiley Siler
2005-06-27 22:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Well, we could aspire to be a great list in his eyes you know. (LOL)

Maybe we can repost the contents of the archive on a regular basis.
We can even repost all the info of the Wiki so people who don't take the
time look things up can find their answers.

At the very least it would save a fella from having to repost something
a dozen times.

If two people responded I am sure that some viable resolution was given.
Besides, it is not like anyone owes us each a response.
This isn't paid support.

You get what you get and we should all be happy to get what we do.

I am thankful for this list personally....

Cheers,
Wiley



-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-***@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Webb
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:16 PM
To: asterisk-***@lists.digium.com; akohlsmith-***@benshaw.com
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt


On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:27:22 -0400
Post by Andrew Kohlsmith
Post by Michael Di Martino
If this list spent at least half the time on helping
other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might
be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most
request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of
unanswered.
Do you have some proof of this? I find the list rather
helpful on the whole,
with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects
inbetween.
-A.
I think he is just frustrated because only two people have
replied to his question about his IAXy device not working
after having repeated his same question a dozen times in
new threads..

Robert
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Robert Webb
2005-06-28 00:04:30 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Michael Di Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but
that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not
really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.
In a Google search box: site:lists.digium.com "What you are searching
for"
Scott Miller
2005-06-28 03:38:42 UTC
Permalink
I just might know of someone who could host it in the US at no charge - who
ever manages the site, e-mail me off list if interested.

Scott

--------- Original Message --------
From: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
<asterisk-***@lists.digium.com>
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
<asterisk-***@lists.digium.com>
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Date: 28/06/05 01:53
Post by Joshua Colp
Matt - catch me on IRC (it's file).
- Joshua Colp.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:30 PM
Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
&gt; So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.
Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site,
it
Post by Joshua Colp
will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
Offers?
--
Cheers,
Matt Riddell
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http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
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